The situation was as follow:
Both teams (doublettes) had boules to play left (9.5 m game). It was Team As turn. The player points the boule in front of the jack (let's say 70cm). He looks from the circle and decides to play another one. The problem was team B told him not to play since the first one got already the point!!!! Nevertheless he played. It all happened very fast - more or less in parallel. And indeed the first boule played had the point (although 70cm far away). BUT now the 2nd boule was placed 10cm in front of the jack making it very difficult for Team B to play, since the shooter had no boules left.
What to do now?????
To be honest, nobody could give me an answer so far. Most people said, if the 2nd boule was played you cannot do anything - it has to stay! Others say he was not allowed to play, since it was the turn of Team B and he has taken their right to play, therefore they can decide if the boule should stay or being taken away!

looking forward to see your comments

dirk

The rule is that the 2nd boule should be REMOVED , as is by default, the fact that the player disregarded the opposite team is even more decisive.

Roger Seymour

Torrevieja Spain

In this case, the end boule will be removed as it is to the advantage of the non-offending opponent. But if the 2nd boule had been practically lost, the boule would have been accepted as played.

Article 24 – Throwing Boules Contrary to the Rules.
Any boule thrown contrary to the rules is dead and, if marked, everything it has moved in its travel is put back in place. The same applies to any boule played from a circle other than that from which the jack was thrown.

However, the opponent may play the advantage rule and declare it to be valid. In this case, the boule pointed or shot is valid and everything it has displaced remains in its place

HTH,
Guy

Hi,
thanks for your comments, they sound logic to me! I also had Article 24 in my mind, but the problem for me was, that it is not clearly stated anywhere, that I am not allowed anymore to continue playing boules, once the last one got the point!
When I asked referees, most of them told me, one has to take in account what the referee sees when he arrives at the court. And in this case he would see two boules of team A that are closer than the boules of Team B, therefore it's team Bs turn without removing any boule!

confusing :-)

I must admit I would take a less formal view of things.

Wasn’t the problem that the player did not measure carefully who had the point?

It seems he genuinely believed he should throw.

It was only after a more careful look (measurement) that he discovered he had played out of turn.

I would think for a social game you would tolerate this carelessness.

For a formal game people should really be more careful.

But then in a formal game everything would be marked wouldn’t it?

Otherwise how would you prove that nothing moved when the player threw the second boule?

Perhaps there was an earth tremor?

I would hope this person has learnt that it is not appropriate to play unless some consensus has been reached about who is holding the point.

Article 16 – Throwing of the First and Following Boules
The first boule of an end is thrown by a player belonging to the team that has won the toss or the last scoring end. Following boules are played by the team not holding the point.

May I add that what the refee sees is not really a very good or true indication of what has happened or how it has happened. But, unfortunately, there is no better way of resolving the problem unless there are cameras on the ground or the referee observes the play.

We must rely on the fairness and fairplay of the players.

Don Nairn wrote:
"I must admit I would take a less formal view of things.

Wasn’t the problem that the player did not measure carefully who had the point?

It seems he genuinely believed he should throw.

It was only after a more careful look (measurement) that he discovered he had played out of turn.

I would think for a social game you would tolerate this carelessness."

I am sure that if the offending player invokes what Don wrote in paras 2, 3 and 4, the referee will accept that it was simply an honest mistake rather than done on purpose and not take any action, even in a formal game.

Naturally, if that player does it again then referee will apply the rule.

If I am not mistaken, Mike Pegg reached that conclusion in a similar situation before. A referee is not God, thank God!

In my first response, I paid too much attention to the fact that the opponents had warned the player that he had the point and not enough to the fact that it happened in parallel, etc.

Thanks Don

Guy