I am planning to get some pro -boules, but am at loss deciding what brand to get.

Whan shopping for regular boules it is fairy simple, they are all abut the same size, weight and material, but if you plan to spend a fair bit on money it turn into something far more complicated.

Please advice! I am looking for boules that are primarely for pointing.

Steven.

Can anyone help? I would be very gratefull if someone could assist in providing me with details on how to make a petanque court. I have no idea of the correct dimensions or its method of construction. Money is a constraint, is there a cheap option? If so I would be grateful for ideas. Thanks MB.

I'm aware there are various amomolies in the rules. A couple of examples:

- Whilst there are rules about what to do under various exceptions, there's nothing about what contsitues the normal order of play - if I'm not happy with my shot, there's nothing in the rules to say I can't simply play another boule and try and do better!
- Whilst the rules state what is valid for a competition boule, they don't say whether or not players have to play with identical boules or not. I'm curious to know whether this was intentional or an oversight?

Any other examples?

Having read recently a book about technic and tactic in petanque (Marty Christian), I come to the conclusion that most (recreative)players don't shoot often enough - compared with what I read and with what I see watching the Elites players.

I am curious to find out what are the criterias or situations that would make you shoot and also the ones that would keep you from shooting.
TIA,
Guy

Dear Steven,

It's a bit like saying What make of car/shoes/anything should I buy?. All of the competition approved boules are good. If there was any one boule/manufacturer that was the best eveybody would use it. Choice will often come down to finding a reliable, local supplier.

Pointers usually choose hard boules, as opposed to soft boules that are favoured by shooters. The main choice is usually between carbon steel and stainless. Carbon is cheaper but can rust if your boules are left damp. Stainless won't rust, and generally has a slightly better grip. A matt finish gives a better grip that chrome, which looks nice in the shop but does wear off.

I sell Integrale boules (www.gaul.co.uk or www.bouleshop.co.uk) - checkout the website!

Regards,

Ray Ager

Steven Mahon wrote:I am planning to get some pro -boules, but am at loss deciding what brand to get.

Whan shopping for regular boules it is fairy simple, they are all abut the same size, weight and material, but if you plan to spend a fair bit on money it turn into something far more complicated.

Please advice! I am looking for boules that are primarely for pointing.

Steven.

Mark Barrett wrote:
------------------------------------

Can anyone help? I would be very gratefull if someone could assist in providing me with details on how to make a petanque court. I have no idea of the correct dimensions or its method of construction. Money is a constraint, is there a cheap option? If so I would be grateful for ideas. Thanks MB.

Mark,
Was looking to find how to construct a petanque court, and saw your question posted.
Did you receive any replies? If so, I'd be obliged if you could forward any info on to me.

Thanks
Tony Rennell
NEW ZEALAND

guy therrien wrote:
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Having read recently a book about technic and tactic in petanque (Marty Christian), I come to the conclusion that most (recreative)players don't shoot often enough - compared with what I read and with what I see watching the Elites players.

I am curious to find out what are the criterias or situations that would make you shoot and also the ones that would keep you from shooting.
TIA,
Guy

One important criterium is your own cabality! That seems obvious, but if you are not able to hit, let's say, at least 4 or 5 boules at 10, shooting makes no sense. But, just like the chicken and the egg, you has to start once!!!

Good luck!

I think you’re observation is quite right. I would say that ‘beginners’ tend to play a pointing game whereas ‘experts’ will shoot far more often. Of course, Jac is 100% right in saying your own ability will dictate how you play.

It’s not uncommon to see beginners point several boules and fail to get the point where an expert would have shot first to remove the leading boule.

To answer your question of when to shoot, I would add: as a very general rule of thumb, if you’re confident you can beat a boule, you should probably point, otherwise you should probably shoot. Of course, you also need to asses various other factors: what is the score, how many points can you score, what is the risk factor, what is the balance of boules left, etc.

Another rule of thumb is: don’t shoot with your last boule. If the shot goes wrong, you have nothing to recover with and are at the opponents’ mercy. However, pointing is not without its risks either – I’m sure we’ve all seen (and some of us have been guilty of!) pointing the last boule, only to knock a boule or the coche and give the opponents a point. Better to carefully assess the risks of both pointing and shooting and try and make the best decision.

At an expert level, say where players are confident of hitting at least 2 out of 3 shots, perhaps more, you’ll see players shooting if they have the balance of boules, less concerned about the distance from the coche, knowing that if the opponents get closer they still have boules to shoot.

It also makes a difference what type of game you’re playing. You’ll probably play differently in a serious competition compared to a social game where winning is less important and you can experiment/practise more. If you’re playing, say, a doubles practise game, you can always shoot 3 boules for practise.

faq wrote:
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I was under the impression that boules should be thrown with the palm facing down, but in a fairly informal competition that I played in recently some players were throwing with palm facing up. In fact some rolled the boule along the ground, more like a game of marbles really.

I cannot find anything in writing that says that this is not allowed.

Does anyone have the definitive answer?

This is really question depending on the situation. I myself am a aggressive players that likes to shoot (being the shooter in the team). Also again having the experience of playing against New Calendonia. These players like to shoot at very irregular times. If the ball is not too close to the coch but not too far they tend to shoot (both men and women).

I have tried to adapt that to my game from time to time and it has worked a few times. It give the opponents fear to play because they think that if they put a ball in the game then they would get shot out. so they tend to play defensivly.

For me i like to play the aggresive game and it has a great outcome on the games that i play in Australia. Not a lot of people don't like to take the risk in shooting because of the fact that they fear to miss the shot. I myself dont care in missing because at least the team took a risk that may of may not have paid off.

guy therrien wrote:
------------------------------------

Having read recently a book about technic and tactic in petanque (Marty Christian), I come to the conclusion that most (recreative)players don't shoot often enough - compared with what I read and with what I see watching the Elites players.

I am curious to find out what are the criterias or situations that would make you shoot and also the ones that would keep you from shooting.
TIA,
Guy


my team has been together for 2 years in Scotland, and both years we have won the Scottish IQS (grand prix) title.
We are more agressive than most teams having found that playing against our Welsh and English counterparts this was what we were going to have to develop.
depending on the piste we will shoot 4 boules sometimes at boule which are 1m away.
doing this means that the opposition have to play again reducing their ball count, and if its close we shoot again.
Our shooter is not 100% all the time, probably more 70%, but we calculate the risks and know each others game.
We also consider the oppositions skills and how they are playing and their style of play.
Its all about how you play, where you are playing, yor confidence level at the time, and what your opponents skills are - would you shoot 6 against an all pointing team? or just clear the head when required?

Petanque is (or can be) a life long pursuit. When you start out, most likely you are in the role of the pointer but I believe to absorb the fullest enjoyment of the game, a player should try to gain mastery of all of the facets: pointing, shooting, captaining a team, even serving as a referee for other people's petanque games.

Shooting is not for everyone, some feel that pointing and working on the various spins/twists that pointing a boule can offer serves a satisfactory role. Shooters may feel similarly that pointing is somehow "not their cup of tea"

I suggest that a pursuit in mastery of one of these roles is fine, but that over many years, there will be opportunities (or challenges) that require a shooter to point (or a pointer to shoot) and that a complete neglect to gain even a passing familiarity with those "lesser" utilized roles can prove disasterous in a petanque career.

Now I believe I digress a little from the main topic of whether one should shoot or point - but I had to state the above in order to define a given: "Determination of shooting or pointing for a particular play should be a decision of strategy knowing that with either choice, the outcome is relatively certain. But if a player has no shooting ability whatsoever, then the decision is already made. The same for a shooter with little pointing ability.

Most pointers choose Hard boules, rather than the more expensive Soft boules favoured by shooters. Your main choice will be between Carbon and Stainless steel. Carbon is cheaper, perfectly ok but will rust, particularly if left wet - some players actually prefer a slight rust coating for an improved grip.

The main advantage of stainless steel is that it doesn't rust and the boules need no special care. Carbon boules should be dried if wet and lightly oiled if left unused for a long period of time to prevent rust.

Weight: pointers generally play with a heavier boule 710 - 740g being the standard manufactured range, although you can go up to 800g. I think 710g is a good all-round weight for beginners, suitable for pointing and shooting. If you're comfortable playing with a heavier boule, that's fine. Heavier boules tend to roll truer, being slightly less deflected by stones and irregularities on the terrain.

See the (updated) FAQ.

Ray Ager wrote:
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«Another rule of thumb is: don’t shoot with your last boule. If the shot goes wrong, you have nothing to recover with and are at the opponents’ mercy».

Ray,
Almost all recreation players I play with tell me the same thing.

Chritian Marty in his book Petanque - Technique - Tactic says this is FALSE and gives many good examples:

The score is 10 -10, the opponents have two boules scoring and one left in hand. If you don't shoot one boule out but point instead, they have a potential 3 points for 13.
You have to shoot and remove at least one boule to keep them from scoring 3.

Also, who would not shoot the 13th point on the ground?

Of course, when the play is to shoot, if one points because he/she is afraid of missing, then one will never shoot, always being afraid of missing. One misses may times also pointing when this is even more hopeless!

However, I fully agree with the rest of your article.
Guy

Ray Ager wrote:
------------------------------------


«Another rule of thumb is: don’t shoot with your last boule. If the shot goes wrong, you have nothing to recover with and are at the opponents’ mercy».

Ray,
Almost all recreation players I play with tell me the same thing.

Chritian Marty in his book Petanque - Technique - Tactic says this is FALSE and gives many good examples:

The score is 10 -10, the opponents have two boules scoring and one left in hand. If you don't shoot one boule out but point instead, they have a potential 3 points for 13.
You have to shoot and remove at least one boule to keep them from scoring 3.

Also, who would not shoot the 13th point on the ground?

Of course, when the play is to shoot, if one points because he/she is afraid of missing, then one will never shoot, always being afraid of missing. One misses may times also pointing when this is even more hopeless!

However, I fully agree with the rest of your article.
Guy

of couse, execution is key.

Many times it seems the opposite strategy would have worked in retrospect.

The key is to make your play, once you have decided what to do.

If you don't make the play, you can't blame the strategy.

-Ed Porto

Terry Ryan wrote:

In a fairly informal competition that I played in recently some players were throwing with palm facing up.

I cannot find anything in writing that says that this is not allowed.

Does anyone have the definitive answer?
-----

You can play with the palm facing either up or down. The reason almost all players play with the palm facing down is that it allows you to control the throw of the boule(turning the boule left or right). Try that with the palm facing up!

Guy

i m a shooter from singapore. juz came back from a competition in thailand.

the thais r very agressive players. even my pointer's boule pointed quite far back from coch, they never hesitated to shoot even although we have more boules in hand than them and even their last boule will be a shot though we have boules in hand.

it is an delight to play with them.

I have played over a year in NYC, with some of the best shooters in the U.S. To play at the higher levels, you have to shoot. If you shoot and you miss, shoot again. You must give yourself the chance to miss, and still continue shooting. Too many players get psyched out if they miss, then go to pointing. But what good is playing a defensive game with five boules? You will never win that way. Of course, you must factor in your opponents, your pointing ability, and your team mate's pointing ability. But always take a shot when there's a chance. Eric Bertin, one of the great shooters in NYC, once told me "Don't think: What will happen if i miss? Think: What will happen if I hit." This is the right attitude. Practice your shot and get decent. Then play aggressive. Put the pressure on the opposition. Make their points go away.

I would agree that beginners tend not to shoot.

To shoot successfully requires a high degree of accuracy in that it is often an all or nothing result.

It seems that pointing is often considered less glamorous at least in Adelaide Australia where I live.

A good pointer will put a lot of pressure on the other team’s shooter.

A very good pointer will put a lot of pressure on the other team’s pointer.

Would a very good pointer leave the opposing team uncertain of if to point or shoot (close but not too close)?

The game is played to 13 points not 13 shots.

Chritian Marty in his book Petanque - Technique - Tactic says this is FALSE and gives many good examples: (and so on)

Otello also, in his book Plein soleil sur la pétanque (I translated it in Dutch), said the same thing. Shooting or not with your last boule always depends of the situation. Sometimes, he explains, it is even more dangerous to point rather than to shoot! For instance when you may move the jack in the direction of two or more boules of the opponents and you even might lose the game!

Jac

I think we’re in agreement, which is why I said it’s best to evaluate the risks of both shooting and pointing before deciding what shot to play.

Perhaps a better rule of thumb would be: Be careful with your last boule!

guy therrien wrote:
------------------------------------

Terry Ryan wrote:

In a fairly informal competition that I played in recently some players were throwing with palm facing up.

I cannot find anything in writing that says that this is not allowed.

Does anyone have the definitive answer?
-----

You can play with the palm facing either up or down. The reason almost all players play with the palm facing down is that it allows you to control the throw of the boule(turning the boule left or right). Try that with the palm facing up!

Guy

Thanks for that Guy, and of course any backspin is impossible palm up.

guy therrien wrote:
------------------------------------

Terry Ryan wrote:

In a fairly informal competition that I played in recently some players were throwing with palm facing up.

I cannot find anything in writing that says that this is not allowed.

Does anyone have the definitive answer?
-----

You can play with the palm facing either up or down. The reason almost all players play with the palm facing down is that it allows you to control the throw of the boule(turning the boule left or right). Try that with the palm facing up!

Guy

Adrian oh wrote:
------------------------------------
i m a shooter from singapore. juz came back from a competition in thailand.
it is an delight to play with them.

So you beat them!

Guy

I also would like to know how to build one. I am just going to try and I'll let you know how it works out.

If I can get 2 or more points by shooting one boule then I'll do it. You couldn't get that many by pointing one boule.

Chritian Marty in his book Petanque - Technique - Tactic

Is this book available in English and where can one buy it.

Thanks

ray ager wrote:
Perhaps a better rule of thumb would be: Be careful with your last boule!

How true!
Not too long ago, I was playing as pointer in a doublet match. In the first end, the opponents threw the jack a few inches from a side rope delimiting the piste(going over means a null end.) I tried twice to take the point but could not. My partner tried shouting the boule once but missed. I pointed my last boule with the same result. At that time, my partner had two boules left to the opponent's five. He tried to shoot the jack out of play for a null end, but he missed again. Resigned, he POINTED to try to cut down on the points the opponents would get. He missed! he hit the jack which left the piste. Result? five points for the opponents! All in the first end too!
Should I tell you that they scored five points in the last end too? They actually did!
Pointing is dangerous too.
Guy

nope they r juz too good for us. but the score is very close

Guy Therrien wrote:
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Adrian oh wrote:
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i m a shooter from singapore. juz came back from a competition in thailand.
it is an delight to play with them.

So you beat them!

Guy

I thought there was a rule that the coche
had to be at least a metre from the boundary No ?

guy therrien wrote:
------------------------------------

ray ager wrote:
Perhaps a better rule of thumb would be: Be careful with your last boule!

How true!
Not too long ago, I was playing as pointer in a doublet match. In the first end, the opponents threw the jack a few inches from a side rope delimiting the piste(going over means a null end.) I tried twice to take the point but could not. My partner tried shouting the boule once but missed. I pointed my last boule with the same result. At that time, my partner had two boules left to the opponent's five. He tried to shoot the jack out of play for a null end, but he missed again. Resigned, he POINTED to try to cut down on the points the opponents would get. He missed! he hit the jack which left the piste. Result? five points for the opponents! All in the first end too!
Should I tell you that they scored five points in the last end too? They actually did!
Pointing is dangerous too.
Guy

Keith Sloan wrote:

I thought there was a rule that the coche
had to be at least a metre from the boundary No ?
-------

Isn't the boundary at least 1 m or 1 m plus 30 cm away from the playing area?

A piste is 4x15 m or 3x12 m (or less in most places I play to save space.) Pistes are separated by thin ropes. Going over the ropes with the boules result in a null boule.
In the case of the jack, the result is a null end. (I know, this is contrary to article 12, but with pistes 2 m wide at some places I don't see crossing 3 or four pistes to finnish an end....)

You have to have home rules sometimes, Yuh!
Guy

guy,

We've all been there - but we don't all admit to it on the web :-)

Ray