: Could anybody please explain how to calculate byes in a Swiss format
tournament.

Hi,
For your information and especially for those who understand french,
I have recently published on the site of my organisation :
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/ffpjp.ille-et-vilaine
the last updated rules recognized by the international federation, dated by february 2000.
The text of the rules which have been modified is highlighted with blue characters, so it is easier to get what is really new.
If needed, I agree to help those who would have problem of translation or understanding (It is not always very understandable even for a french guy!).
Marc Hascoet

Hello people, and thanks to petanque.org for letting me send a message to
all petanque-players.

I would like to know how much and how often the different clubs train, and
when I say train I dont mean playing. In our club the technique training is
bigger and better in the juniors training (I dont know if the older folks
have hard to learn or what?)
for make the sport petanque grow the formal training have to be better, I
think. I would like to hear someone reflect over this

regards Bjørn

Can you please advise on the standard dimensions for a piste?

Thanks: very useful site

- how many boules do you need ?

We all say that the first ball should be 18-10 in front. Here it controls the line of approach and not yet too close to call a immediate takeout. However, when it is too close or touching the jack, is it best to do an immediate a takeout shot?

Often during a social game, especially when starting the first game with new players; I will ask the pointers to point when the first ball is touching the jack. Why?

First, do I want the distance and the jack placement. If not, then an immedate takeout and knocking the jack out of play brings up a new jack placement.

If I feel that the jack will go out of bounds with the takeout, I let the players play because of two reason.

1.__ A good kiss point, or even a kiss will allow a takeout without the danger of the jack being knocked out of bounds. ( I even try to have my pointers know how to do a kiss-and-follow the jack pointing.

old position new position
o
( 8 m)- o o.. O
X X

2. __ If it is the beginning of the game, and the players need to understand the playing surface it doesn't hurt to let them practice. Three balls at the most. (OF Course the Shooter must be sure of the takeout.)

Most of the time the point ball is kissed but the times it has not been, the takeout has ended the end with the jack out of play.

Question. Is the best strategy (social) to build confidence with the practice pointing and the takeout, or is it better to takeout immediately. If the shooter is not sure of the takeout, it is best to have balls to close up the point. But as to team spirit and using the advantage of a too close pointed ball. Is this a bad or a good decision ?

John

a bey is always calculated as a 13-7 victory.
But what do you mean with swiss format?
If you use poules and then direct knock-out, then you never need the points,
only the victory.

Ollivier

: Could anybody please explain how to calculate byes in a Swiss format
tournament.

By byes I suppose you mean walk-overs. But walk-overs are not a good
thing.

There are more than one way to skin the cat. May I propose that you don't
use Swiss format,
but play pools of 4. Then all teams get 3 matches in the pool, and you may
select the best no. 3 teams as qualified for the next round.

Example: You have 24 teams, 6 pools of 4 (A-F).

You then have 12 teams qualified, A1, A2, B1, B2 ...., but to awoid
walk-overs you need 4 more teams to qualify for the next round.

You then pick the four no. 3 teams with the most won matches and best score.

The layout for the next round must be such as the no. 3 teams all will play
against winners in the pools in the next
round.

The Bye is 13 to 7 points. One way to play a competition when no player is eliminated,is to play the Best-Of-X-Games whereas the two best players play the final after say 5 games.
You could also play knock-Grading where you could be knockout from one group (lose one game)and Knockin for the next group(start the next game with the losers of the previous one). If you are interested please let me know. It is free, you will need Excel to open the spreadsheets.
Regards Jean-Philippe

Ray Ager wrote:
------------------------------------

: Could anybody please explain how to calculate byes in a Swiss format
tournament.

Bonjour Marc,

J'ai une copie du règlement du jeu officiel publiè sur votre site. J'ai quelques observations sur ce règlement dont j'aimerais vous faire part.

Rejoignez-moi par e-mail (couriel pour nous les Québéquois) si vous désirez en prendre connaissance.

À bientôt, je l'espère,
Guy

Personally, I train for about 30 minutes, 3 times a week, practising lobbing and shooting. I'm afraid to say that in our club of 40+ members, there's only a couple of us who do train, the rest don’t.

Several times I’ve proposed coaching sessions and even offered a top of the range set of boules (I sell boules) for the first player to reach “Gold” standard in a Skills Award scheme – nobody interested.

Off to practise!

Regards,

Ray Ager
P.S. Shouldn't this be in the General forum?

The «standard dimensions for a piste» are 4 x 15 m or 3 x 12 m.

HTH,
Guy

faq wrote:
------------------------------------

- how many boules do you need ?

One set of three per player, so you can play one on one (3) each, two on two (3) each, three on three (2) each. There should never be more than 12 boules in a game

The diagram does allow spaces... sorry

Diagram (playing O)

_________________old position ____________________new Position

==================out of bounds =======================
``````` ````````````````````````````````````````` `` ```o
......................................................................................................O
-------( 8 m)- `O``````````o````````` ``` ```````````````(kiss point) ____________________X____________________________________X

====================out of bounds ==========================


John

I want to use the Swiss format for some club competitions, as I think it's
the best format that allows all teams to play in all rounds (nobody gets
eliminated), it allows the best teams to play
together, and it produces a true winner at the end.

Having previously played quite a bit of backgammon and bridge, it's a very
popular format, for the above reasons - but I'm a bit rusty on how to
calculate byes with an odd number of teams.

Assuming that teams are ranked on matches won then points difference, I'm
planning on scoring the bye as a win with a zero points difference - an
average score.

Any further thoughts would be much appreciated.

guy therrien wrote:
------------------------------------

The «standard dimensions for a piste» are 4 x 15 m or 3 x 12 m.

HTH,
Guy

Can't make out why 4 x and 3 x that appear to increase the dimensions to 60 x 36 metres--that cannot be correct. Do I just assume 15 x 12 m is sufficient?

I want to build a piste at our cottage in Touraine, France. Level land is available (cutting the area from grass turf) and so are sand and timbers for the frame .

The ground dries quicly being limestone subsoil so I don't anticipate digging down more than 20 cms.

A very helpful site that Google found for me. Thanks for setting it up.

Hi Ray

To date we haven't had an odd number of entries in the Swiss events that we have run. However, the usual method is to allocate it to the lowest ranked player/team in the first round, and the lowest ranked player/team in the bottom score group in subsequent rounds. The proviso being that no player/team is allocated the bye more than once.

As to what score to use, the preferred option seems to be 13-7, although I don't think it needs to be used unless you are using points differential to split ties at the end of the tournament.

During the tournament itself, ranking is done on the first round ordering (according to some system if you have it - see postings on the Elo system) or by random draw. Ranking shouldn't change during the course of the tournament.

Regards
Michael


Ray Ager wrote:
------------------------------------

I want to use the Swiss format for some club competitions, as I think it's
the best format that allows all teams to play in all rounds (nobody gets
eliminated), it allows the best teams to play
together, and it produces a true winner at the end.

Having previously played quite a bit of backgammon and bridge, it's a very
popular format, for the above reasons - but I'm a bit rusty on how to
calculate byes with an odd number of teams.

Assuming that teams are ranked on matches won then points difference, I'm
planning on scoring the bye as a win with a zero points difference - an
average score.

Any further thoughts would be much appreciated.

Terry Hobden wrote:
------------------------------------
«Can't make out why 4 x and 3 x that appear to increase the dimensions to 60 x 36 metres--that cannot be correct. Do I just assume 15 x 12 m is sufficient?»

Terry,
4 x 15 m or 3 x 12 m means you can build a piste 4 m wide and 15 m long OR you can build a piste 3 m wide and 12 m long.

«Article 5 – Terrain Regulations
The game of Pétanque is played on any ground. However, by a decision of the organising committee or the Umpire, the teams may be asked to play on a marked terrain. In this case, for National Championships and International Competitions, the minimum dimensions must be 4m wide and 15m long.

For other competitions the Associations may allow variations down to 12m x 3m.

If the terrain is surrounded by solid barriers these must be a minimum of 30 cm outside the dead ball line. The dead ball line will encircle the exterior of the terrain at a maximum distance of 4 metres.»

HTH,
Guy