I live in the UK and i am recovering my petanque terrain with new grit, but i cant find any. Does anyone know where i could get good grit from (about 3mm)!!!, i need it before the season starts.

cheers

Article 18 of the rules suggests that when a terrain is divided into marked pistes,the coche and boules are to be played within the marked lines. Does this mean that the coche can be thrown to within 15 centimetres of the line, or does the rule of 1 metre still stand?

Dear Stig,

Been trying to email with content for the site but getting errors, copy below.

Could you contact me (and delete this message)

Regards,

Ray

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I have seen some players use blue boules, from "La bouel bleu".
Is it legal to colorize my boules, in a really loud color? Or do they have to be metal?

I am planning to spray-paint a set in a color called "signal red" - just to make a point.

Have you tried your local Agregate Merchant? See Yellow Pages, or builders merchants.

Vernon Walker wrote:

Article 18 of the rules suggests that when a terrain is divided into marked pistes,the coche and boules are to be played within the marked lines. Does this mean that the coche can be thrown to within 15 centimetres of the line, or does the rule of 1 metre still stand?

Art 18 says that if the terrains have been marked out by the organisers [into separate pistes], the cochonnet must be thrown within the terrain [piste] allotted to each team.

So the coche must be thrown «within the terrain (piste)».

No mention of 15 cm or 1 m. And a good thing too as in some places I play the pistes are no wider than 2 m. Now imagine the rule of 1 m.

Guy

Remember that the 'official' rules are referring to terrains 4m wide. It's normally the case that if you do have a narrower terrain then you have a correspondinly narrow distance from borders when throwing the coche, i.e. 50 or 30cm rather than 1m.

We have no such distances from borders here in Quebec, Canada on all the clubs I have played so far. The ropes separating the pistes are the borders and if the jack lands and remains within these borders then it is in play.
Guy



ray ager wrote:
------------------------------------

Remember that the 'official' rules are referring to terrains 4m wide. It's normally the case that if you do have a narrower terrain then you have a correspondinly narrow distance from borders when throwing the coche, i.e. 50 or 30cm rather than 1m.

ray ager wrote:

Remember that the 'official' rules are referring to terrains 4m wide. It's normally the case that if you do have a narrower terrain then you have a correspondinly narrow distance from borders when throwing the coche, i.e. 50 or 30cm rather than 1m.
--------
Ray,
I don't know what the 1 m or the 30 or 50 cm have anything to do with the strings or ropes separating the piste.

I one throws the jack and it lands 7 meters from the circle and 15 cm from the left-hand side rope separating the next piste on the left, then the jack is good. It would be null ONLY IF it did cross entirely the left-hand rope. I suggest you read rule 18 again.

Rule 7(3) deals with obstacles (none on the pistes) and with bondary of the playing area (the playing area is the whole terrain which may contain 6, 10, 15, etc pistes.

7 (3) The cochonnet must be at least 1m minimum from all obstacles and from the boundary of the playing area.

When you write: «It's normally the case that if you do have a narrower terrain then you have a correspondinly narrow distance from borders when throwing the coche, i.e. 50 or 30cm rather than 1m», is that your own rule? LOL
It's nice to see that the forum is lively for a change!
cheers

You mean that nobody in Canada bothers about rule 7 (3), which says that the coche must be 1m from any obstacle and the boundary?

Do Canadian players ignore any other rules :-)

I guess this just illustrates a basic problem with the rules, i.e. they’re not particularly consistent and are open to (mis- ?) interpretation. I would just repeat that for all official matches at clubs I’ve played in the UK and France, the coche has to be 1m from the boundary – the string, if used to mark the terrain – for 4m pistes. For narrower pistes, it’s usually 50 or 30cm - as determined by the local competition organisers.

Playing ‘social’ games, players may not bother about this.

The string lines or marks seperating the lanes are to indicate the area in which the cicle is to be drawn for your game and for where the jack is to be thrown. The thrown jack can go up to but not over the string line when first thrown, if the jack does goes over the line it must be re-thrown and counts as one of the three throws a team has to throw a valid jack. During play if the jack is knocked over the line it remains in play...

I hope this helps to answer your question

Regards
Mike

guy therrien wrote:
------------------------------------

ray ager wrote:

Remember that the 'official' rules are referring to terrains 4m wide. It's normally the case that if you do have a narrower terrain then you have a correspondinly narrow distance from borders when throwing the coche, i.e. 50 or 30cm rather than 1m.
--------
Ray,
I don't know what the 1 m or the 30 or 50 cm have anything to do with the strings or ropes separating the piste.

I one throws the jack and it lands 7 meters from the circle and 15 cm from the left-hand side rope separating the next piste on the left, then the jack is good. It would be null ONLY IF it did cross entirely the left-hand rope. I suggest you read rule 18 again.

Rule 7(3) deals with obstacles (none on the pistes) and with bondary of the playing area (the playing area is the whole terrain which may contain 6, 10, 15, etc pistes.

7 (3) The cochonnet must be at least 1m minimum from all obstacles and from the boundary of the playing area.

When you write: «It's normally the case that if you do have a narrower terrain then you have a correspondinly narrow distance from borders when throwing the coche, i.e. 50 or 30cm rather than 1m», is that your own rule? LOL
It's nice to see that the forum is lively for a change!
cheers

ray ager wrote:
You mean that nobody in Canada bothers about rule 7 (3), which says that the coche must be 1m from any obstacle and the boundary?

Do Canadian players ignore any other rules :-)

Rules? What's that?

Ray, it looks as though rule 18 rather than 7 applies in the case of separate pistes : Rule 18: «if the terrains have been marked out by the organisers [into separate pistes], the cochonnet must be thrown within the terrain [piste] allotted to each team.»
IMHO or IMHI (I for interpretation)

Cheers,
Guy

I hate to disagree with Ray, but the Rules, which apply only to FIPJP official competitions and not to anything else, are as follows: first (outside) the barrier holding back the crowds, next (I can't be bthered to look up the distances) the dead ball line going all around the playing area. Inside that, and again I can't remember the prescribed distances, are the boxes (15m x 4m) for each game. You can throw the cochonnet ANYWHERE within that box, as close as you like to the next box. The only line that affects play, apart from that, is the dead ball line (outside the terrain-rectangles). If the competition hasn't fulfilled all the international requirements it is for the organisers to decide what applies, and announce it - and many,various and bizarre are their decisions! Ask any international umpire or player.
Ray Ager wrote:
------------------------------------

I guess this just illustrates a basic problem with the rules, i.e. they’re not particularly consistent and are open to (mis- ?) interpretation. I would just repeat that for all official matches at clubs I’ve played in the UK and France, the coche has to be 1m from the boundary – the string, if used to mark the terrain – for 4m pistes. For narrower pistes, it’s usually 50 or 30cm - as determined by the local competition organisers.

Playing ‘social’ games, players may not bother about this.

Thanks for the clarification, Mike - apologies to everybody if I was on the wrong piste :-)

I don't know if anybody would like to add anything further, but, again at every tournament I've played out, pistes are marked with a single string/line dividing them, i.e. there is no distinction between 'boundaries', 'dead-boules lines', etc, between pistes (although there may be at each end).

It seems that organisers treat the string/lines in different ways: some rule that a boule crossing the line is in play, others rule that a boule crossing the line is out-of-play - always best to check :-)

Happy Bouling!

Ray Ager

Ray Ager wrote:
------------------------------------

You mean that nobody in Canada bothers about rule 7 (3), which says that the coche must be 1m from any obstacle and the boundary?

Do Canadian players ignore any other rules :-)
Hi again Ray,

I was a bit confused a while ago when I looked up Mike Pegg's drawing of a marked terrain shown at: http://www.britishpetanque.org/

In that document Mike mentions «defined playing area» and «playing area». If one is not careful one can assume that both terms means the same thing. Error!

The defined playing area is the one that is 4 X 12 meters, the one inside of which you must draw the circle and inside of which the cochonnet must land and rest.

The playing area is whole area within the dead-Boule line (defined playing area (4 X 12 m) PLUS the 1 to 4 m area bonded by the dead Boule line.

Rule 7 para (3) The cochonnet must be at least 1m minimum from all obstacles and from the boundary of the «playing area». Not the «defined playing area»

Therefore the cochonnet must be thrown to within 1 m from the dead-Boule line (playing area) not from the defined playing area.

See that now?

I think the names of those two different areas are even more confusing in french.

The playing area is called «terrain interdit».

The defined playing area or the area that is not «interdit» is called «terrain autorisé».

Amen,
Guy

Charles,
You are absolutely right. I have a diagram of a playing area showing four pistes, sent to me last summer by Mike Pegg.

As long as the jack is thrown within the 4x15 piste, it is in play. Then if it leave the piste it is syill in play as long as it does not cross entirely the dead boule line.

From : British Pétanque Association DIAGRAM OF A MARKED OUT PLAYING AREA

Solid boundary 30 cms. from the dead boule line, made of solid wood at least 100mm. High.

Dead boule line 1 to 4 metres from the defined playing areas and normally marked by string.

Defined playing area15 x 4 metres
Normally marked by string.

The lines marking the defined playing area show the area within which the circle is drawn and the cochonnet thrown.

There can be any number of defined playing areas. They are commonly called pistes.

The whole area within the dead boule line is the playing area and is all live once the cochonnet has been thrown to start an end.

The whole area within the solid boundary is the terrain.

A boule or the cochonnet must completely cross the dead boule line to be out of play.
Ray, I suggest you contact Mike Pegg, but, I just think you just don't see what we are talking about rather than not know the rule.

Guy


Charles Clarke wrote:
------------------------------------
I hate to disagree with Ray, but the Rules, which apply only to FIPJP official competitions and not to anything else, are as follows: first (outside) the barrier holding back the crowds, next (I can't be bthered to look up the distances) the dead ball line going all around the playing area. Inside that, and again I can't remember the prescribed distances, are the boxes (15m x 4m) for each game. You can throw the cochonnet ANYWHERE within that box, as close as you like to the next box. The only line that affects play, apart from that, is the dead ball line (outside the terrain-rectangles). If the competition hasn't fulfilled all the international requirements it is for the organisers to decide what applies, and announce it - and many,various and bizarre are their decisions! Ask any international umpire or player.

I would just ask: how then do you interpret rule 7 (3), The cochonnet must be at least 1m minimum from all obstacles and from the boundary of the playing area.

For the sake of argument: assume a terrain, 15 x 4m. When you throw the coche, it must be at least 1m from the boundary, i.e. the sides and back of the terrain.

Now assume you have a terrain 8m wide, divided in 2 by string. Do you think the intention is that now when you throw the coche it can go anywhere - surely it still has to be at least 1m away from the boundary. This would be the edge of the terrain on one side and the string on the other side.

Playing social games in France, boundaries are often ignored - the coche can land anywhere and boules can be played off the boundary and still be in play.

However, in competitions, the rules apply! The coche must be 1m away from the boundary and boules hitting the boundary are out-of-play.

BTW I have asked Mike Pegg for his comments.

No apologies required Ray. You were another victim of the un-famous «house rule»

I play at many places here (seven days a week)with some of the most stupid house rules you would never dream somebody dreamed up.

Cheers and go fo another carreaux!
Guy

Ray Ager wrote:
------------------------------------
Thanks for the clarification, Mike - apologies to everybody if I was on the wrong piste :-)

It seems that organisers treat the string/lines in different ways: some rule that a boule crossing the line is in play, others rule that a boule crossing the line is out-of-play - always best to check :-)

guy therrien wrote:
------------------------------------

I think the names of those two different areas are even more confusing in french.

The playing area is called «terrain interdit».

The defined playing area or the area that is not «interdit» is called «terrain autorisé».

Correction: I don't think French has two names such as playing area and defined playing area.

They have «terrain autorisé» for either playing area or defined playing area and «terrain interdit, which is outside the dead-boule line or where the boule and cochonnet are dead, null.
Sorry about the confusion.
Guy

May I add that apart from the jack to be trown within the piste, the distances from it to the nearest edge of the circle must still respect those listed at rule 7 (1)
namely, 6m min. and 10m max. for Juniors and Seniors, etc.

Guy

Ray Ager wrote:
------------------------------------
Playing social games in France, boundaries are often ignored - the coche can land anywhere and boules can be played off the boundary and still be in play.

However, in competitions, the rules apply! The coche must be 1m away from the boundary and boules hitting the boundary are out-of-play.

BTW I have asked Mike Pegg for his comments.

Ray, I just can't imagine that your second paragraph applies in the case of strings separating pistes or lanes in France.

Guy

Ray I think you were suffering from applying logic to the situation. If artificial lines are added then you would have thought they would count as boundaries. The fact that you can throw the coche so that it touches the line and then use the line to guide in the boule makes a bit of a mockery of the current rule in my opinion. After all there does not seem to be a rule to say what diameter the line has to be. I think the rules of Pentanque leave a lot to be desired. Being Nationalistic one could say they suffer from being French and Not English who are lot more sticklers for drawing up and obeying the rules. Still France has produced good Engineers and Mathmatitions so there must be some logic
knocking round somewhere.

guy therrien wrote:
------------------------------------

No apologies required Ray. You were another victim of the un-famous «house rule»

I play at many places here (seven days a week)with some of the most stupid house rules you would never dream somebody dreamed up.

Cheers and go fo another carreaux!
Guy

Ray Ager wrote:
------------------------------------
Thanks for the clarification, Mike - apologies to everybody if I was on the wrong piste :-)

It seems that organisers treat the string/lines in different ways: some rule that a boule crossing the line is in play, others rule that a boule crossing the line is out-of-play - always best to check :-)

Dear Keith,

I think that’s the first time I’ve been accused of using logic in pétanque!

I agree that this discussion has arisen because it would appear that the majority of competition organisers and players treat dividing strings/line as boundaries, which we now know is incorrect according to the letter of the rules.

A final observation – showing how ‘logical’ my mind is :-) Assume marked out pistes, 4m wide, the lines treated as per the rules, i.e. boules and the coche crossing the line during an end remain in play. The coche can move up to 20m. In theory, the coche could cross 4 other pistes and remain in play. Play would have to wait until the ends on the other 4 pistes finished before the 20m coche could be played, across the 4 other pistes!

Maybe that’s why everybody treats dividing lines as boundaries…

Happy bouling!

Ray Ager

Yes, I once saw that happen at he World Championships

Charles

Ray Ager wrote:
------------------------------------

Dear Keith,

I think that’s the first time I’ve been accused of using logic in pétanque!

I agree that this discussion has arisen because it would appear that the majority of competition organisers and players treat dividing strings/line as boundaries, which we now know is incorrect according to the letter of the rules.

A final observation – showing how ‘logical’ my mind is :-) Assume marked out pistes, 4m wide, the lines treated as per the rules, i.e. boules and the coche crossing the line during an end remain in play. The coche can move up to 20m. In theory, the coche could cross 4 other pistes and remain in play. Play would have to wait until the ends on the other 4 pistes finished before the 20m coche could be played, across the 4 other pistes!

Maybe that’s why everybody treats dividing lines as boundaries…

Happy bouling!

Ray Ager

Ray Ager wrote:
-
Assume marked out pistes, 4m wide, the lines treated as per the rules, i.e. boules and the coche crossing the line during an end remain in play. The coche can move up to 20m. In theory, the coche could cross 4 other pistes and remain in play. Play would have to wait until the ends on the other 4 pistes finished before the 20m coche could be played, across the 4 other pistes!
-------

AS I wrote in earlier posts, imagine instead, 2 m wide. Most places I play have pistes less than 3 m wide. This is why any times the jack cross the lines the end is over. Any times boules cross these lines, they are null.

Guy