I call this a Pork Chop because you can break your chops over it and still
wonder if the meat of the petanque is pork (pig, or Cochon) or just pure
bull.
We all have zones of intimidation, that regulate how we welcome the presence
of others. Does Petanque captains watching that ball being pointed make
his decision to takeout because of the intimidation of it's placement or
does he play a game play.

When we speak of this zone of intimidation, we best think of how we accept
cars in our immediate area. The few feet from the side (a narrow zone) and
the several car-length in front or behind (wide).

Last week, while playing with a elite-style club, (point-takeout as to
social) I discovered that a 18 inch ball at 3 o'clock (12 is straight ahead)
was left to be
pointed twice before the takeout shot. If the takeout shot was not
successful, the fact that we, the opponents now were three ball advantage
certainly
changed the play strategy.

Several times during the night, with different teams, as a lefthand player,
I tested who close was too close and where I could place a ball which didnot
creat an intimidation.

Then the question arises of who this petanque zone is similar to the car`s
zone. Does the frontal ball, get less or more attention then a close side
ball, or
one behind. The idea continues to be a part of my game study.

I've read the rules but I'm confused on how the players' turns are decided. Elsewhere on this website it was mentioned that the rules don't specify the order yet there seems to be an accepted order.

1) After the cochonette is thrown who goes next?

2) Then, as I understand it, once a team's boule is nearest the cochonette (the point?) then the other team goes and so on.

3) If this is the case that there is no required order then what if both teams refuse to play their boule?

4) And if the turn is decided by who has the point what happens if the cochonette is moved by a boule? This may change who is nearest the cochonette.

Thanks.
Jason

I may be being stupid but I cannot find in your pages the actual rules on scoring.
Please advise Thanks.

what sort of surface can you play on ?

Article 9

Le but est nul:

2º) Quand, au cours d’une mène, le but est déplacé en terrain interdit même s’il revient en terrain autorisé. Le but à cheval sur la limite d’un terrain autorisé est bon. Il n’est nul qu’après avoir dépassé entièrement la limite du terrain autorisé ou la ligne de perte, c’est-à-dire lorsqu’il se situe entièrement au-delà de l’aplomb de cette limite.

Lorsque les terrains sont délimités par des cordes et que le but est projeté sous cette corde ou dépasse la corde mais la touche encore, le but est-il nul?

La même chose s'applique t-elle à une boule dépassant mais touchant la corde?
Merci,
Guy

Interesting hypothesis. But from what little play I have engaged in, it
seems to me that the short boule commands more attention because of the
ability to
strike it without (necessarily) effect on other components - boules and pig.
A miss short does not interfere with anything else. A miss short against a
long
boule could ruin a lot of other things.

i'm new to petangue and iwant to know whats the position when you have a set of boules with 2/4/6 rings How do you play a game between 2 people there are not 3 boules that can be separated for each player
John Tupper wrote:
------------------------------------

I call this a Pork Chop because you can break your chops over it and still
wonder if the meat of the petanque is pork (pig, or Cochon) or just pure
bull.
We all have zones of intimidation, that regulate how we welcome the presence
of others. Does Petanque captains watching that ball being pointed make
his decision to takeout because of the intimidation of it's placement or
does he play a game play.

When we speak of this zone of intimidation, we best think of how we accept
cars in our immediate area. The few feet from the side (a narrow zone) and
the several car-length in front or behind (wide).

Last week, while playing with a elite-style club, (point-takeout as to
social) I discovered that a 18 inch ball at 3 o'clock (12 is straight ahead)
was left to be
pointed twice before the takeout shot. If the takeout shot was not
successful, the fact that we, the opponents now were three ball advantage
certainly
changed the play strategy.

Several times during the night, with different teams, as a lefthand player,
I tested who close was too close and where I could place a ball which didnot
creat an intimidation.

Then the question arises of who this petanque zone is similar to the car`s
zone. Does the frontal ball, get less or more attention then a close side
ball, or
one behind. The idea continues to be a part of my game study.

Well we now have a pieste/terrain at our village hall and despite the odd social game the previous year, this is our first real year. We don't have any accurate shooters yet, but a number of people will have a go if the other team is holding close i.e. Less than 6 inches, we have a lot of players who will easily out point a boule 18 away and 3 o'clock is not going to interfere much if at all. I can see the point of pointing short and blocking 4 oclock to 6 oclock ( We only have a few who spin in from the right and no left handers ). Tactics at present seem to be get a boule as close as possible preferably in front of the coche thus encouraging the other side to shoot and hopefully use up boule. I would say at our level 12 in front the opposition will try to out point and find it awkward, less than 6 and those who are prepared to have a go will. 18 to the side and nobody at our level will worry, they will just out point and let you have to start the shooting, even if you shot every one they put closer than 18 they would still be left with one boule to out point an 18 boule and I would say you would loose more often than win, unless you could shoot better than our players can point to less than 18 . We certainly don't have anybody that would come close to that sort of shooting ability and a high proportion who could point to less than 18 .

Keith

John Tupper wrote:
------------------------------------

I call this a Pork Chop because you can break your chops over it and still
wonder if the meat of the petanque is pork (pig, or Cochon) or just pure
bull.
We all have zones of intimidation, that etc

Jason Ney wrote:
------------------------------------

I've read the rules but I'm confused on how the players' turns are decided.
As you've discovered, it's often the case that a game's rulebook doesn't provide a clear description of how to actually play the game - that's why there are books and websites :-) Rulebooks tend to assume you know how to play the game and are more there to resolve disputes.

1) After the cochonette is thrown who goes next?
A player from the team that threw the coche, i.e. this can be the player who threw the coche but it doesn't have to be. There are arguments for and against whether the team's pointer or shooter should throw the coche.

2) Then, as I understand it, once a team's boule is nearest the cochonette (the point?) then the other team goes and so on.
Correct - one of the many things that's much easier to see in play then describe in words.

3) If this is the case that there is no required order then what if both teams refuse to play their boule?
The rules govern which TEAM plays next. The order of play within the team is for the team to agree - there are no rules about this.
4) And if the turn is decided by who has the point what happens if the cochonette is moved by a boule? This may change who is nearest the cochonette.
True - the rules is always basically: if you're nearest the coche, the other team plays next - even if the coche, or other boules, move during play.

Hope this helps!

(I'm sure this needs to be a FAQ: what's the order of play?)

Ray

No stupidity on your part here.. It seems that we had removed the link completely.

But thanks to your note here the link to the rules are once againg on the front page.

Cheers,
mr.bordsenius of petanque.org













Martin Coombs wrote:I may be being stupid but I cannot find in your pages the actual rules on scoring.
Please advise Thanks.

: Interesting hypothesis. But from what little play I have engaged in, it
seems to me that the short boule commands more attention because of the
ability
to strike it without (necessarily) effect on other components - boules and
pig. A miss short does not interfere with anything else. A miss short
against a
long boule could ruin a lot of other things.

Hoping to get more fish to bite at the question, Maybe later ?

Your reference to the short ball is supportive of the Game Play intimidation
where the ball out in front causes an interference with the line of approach
of
pointed balls. This short ball divides the approach into a left and right
passage (unless you kiss it).

The intimidation is to remove it but the question of a zone of intimidation
is how far out from the jack (pig) must this ball be played before it passes
beyond the limits of Must be removed . Also during the end-game where few
balls are left to play and this short ball if removed must cross the playing
house; it becomes acceptable to not remove it because of the danger of
changing the game play.

Of course in social play this is not always true as the frontal ball may be
removed after it has been a burden to the opposition and the team now are
playing their advantage balls. Here, even if it is in danger of crossing the
house and changing the jack (pig) position it becomes an acceptable strategy
for a 3 or 4 ball advantage.

If the objective of this zone of intimidation is to just place the ball
beyond it limits so as not to invoke a takeout shot immediately; the
question arises how
much distance is acceptable at the various positions of the house clock .
12o'clock directly ahead, 6 o'clock a short ball,etc. It also becomes of
concern
for the alleys of approach which are at 5 o'clock (right handed player) and
7 o'clock (lefthanders)

In the Pork Chop I used the 3 O'clock 18 inch ball to waste two pointer
balls. Because I was lefthanded, place the jack against their alley of
approach.
(heavy gravel,etc) Because their balls were short they were now out in front
of my 18 inch ball and there fore created another intimidation (a takeout
over
a frontal ball)

I know that the elite game plan is Point-Takeout , and having played a
few games with the better players, (Parc Lafontaine) I was surprise to see
this
stragegy of jack placement and 1st ball placement created unexpected
results.

Yes, most would say a frontal ball get taken out, But in using the zone of
intimidation it is to just be beyond it limits and not get taken out. Every
ball
wasted pointed, before the takeout is an advantage which can be converted to
points at game-end

Ray Ager wrote, in part:
------------------------------------
The rules govern which TEAM plays next.

Ray,
Article 16 of the rules states which team throws the firt boule of each end, but not _which team plays next_ unless the the first boule played goes out of play, the opponent plays and so on alternately while there are no boules in play.

Article 29 states that if two boules belonging to opposing teams are equidistant from, or touching the cochonnet, and if both teams have boules to play, the team which played the last boule plays again, then the other team, and so on alternately until a boule is holding the point. When only one team has boules left, they play them as in the above paragraph.

Apart from these two cases, nothing in the rules states who plays next, although books and words of mouths states who plays next.
IMHO,
Guy

: : Interesting hypothesis. But from what little play I have engaged in, it
seems to me that the short boule commands more attention because of the
ability
to strike it without (necessarily) effect on other components - boules and
pig. A miss short does not interfere with anything else. A miss short
against a
long boule could ruin a lot of other things.

: Hoping to get more fish to bite at the question, Maybe later ?

: Your reference to the short ball is supportive of the Game Play
intimidation where the ball out in front causes an interference with the
line of approach of
pointed balls. This short ball divides the approach into a left and right
passage (unless you kiss it).

: The intimidation is to remove it but the question of a zone of
intimidation is how far out from the jack (pig) must this ball be played
before it passes
beyond the limits of Must be removed . Also during the end-game where few
balls are left to play and this short ball if removed must cross the playing
house; it becomes acceptable to not remove it because of the danger of
changing the game play.

: Of course in social play this is not always true as the frontal ball may
be removed after it has been a burden to the opposition and the team now are
playing their advantage balls. Here, even if it is in danger of crossing the
house and changing the jack (pig) position it becomes an acceptable strategy
for a 3 or 4 ball advantage.

: If the objective of this zone of intimidation is to just place the ball
beyond it limits so as not to invoke a takeout shot immediately; the
question arises how
much distance is acceptable at the various positions of the house clock .
12o'clock directly ahead, 6 o'clock a short ball,etc. It also becomes of
concern
for the alleys of approach which are at 5 o'clock (right handed player) and
7 o'clock (lefthanders)

: In the Pork Chop I used the 3 O'clock 18 inch ball to waste two pointer
balls. Because I was lefthanded, place the jack against their alley of
approach.
(heavy gravel,etc) Because their balls were short they were now out in front
of my 18 inch ball and there fore created another intimidation (a takeout
over
a frontal ball)

: I know that the elite game plan is Point-Takeout , and having played a
few games with the better players, (Parc Lafontaine) I was surprise to see
this
stragegy of jack placement and 1st ball placement created unexpected
results.

: Yes, most would say a frontal ball get taken out, But in using the zone of
intimidation it is to just be beyond it limits and not get taken out. Every
ball
wasted pointed, before the takeout is an advantage which can be converted to
points at game-end

Well, I wasn't actually fishing (I did say that I wasn't very experienced at
this game yet).In fact, this thread almost makes me believe that there are
proponents who are mentally well past where the game itself is. Is this type
of 'hypothesis' typical of how more advanced players think?

Cheers...Gary

: In fact, this thread almost makes me believe that there are proponents who
are mentally well past where the game itself is.

Very true, Too much thinking doesn't necessary lead toward a win. The
advance players in my opinion, move into an ability tunnel where the takeout
and the pointing abilities become the players main concern. Here they wait
for the first error to be made by the opponent and this advantage of balls
becomes another strategy. Until the advantage is lost with the opponents
making an error.
Like yourself, I am on the learning curve and this zone of intimidation as
become an effort to improve my changes toward an WIN. NO it will not be
used by the elite cream of the crop because without a good pointer and
good shooter they have not arrived at the TOP, Our teams of beginners
sometimes can not win as in teh overpowering games show. However, I am a
left-handed player and I have discovered an advantage (tactic) to
choosing the jack placement which attacking the playing surface of the
righthanded pointer. To improve the advantages of my team against a good
shooter, I have even tried to use this zone and sometime it really is
workable.

As an example: I know a excellance shooter who hasnot the ability to refuse
a second takeout shot. If he misses the frist ball he is sure to use his
second shot. Even will insist that his middle try the shot. Three balls for
one is a good exchange if I can get him to miss the first. He has an
intimidation
at 7.5 to 8.5 meters and will always be high or over-left. Why?? I only know
a jack at 8 to 9 meters and a frontal ball will waste his balls.

Now, it was discovered, by error, my own inability to point well; that as my
ball moved too far right of the jack it was permitted to stay and the
opponents would attempt to point an extra ball or two, like the wasted
shooter ball, this wasted pointed ball gave an advantage.

Is this type of 'hypothesis' typical of how more advanced players think?

No. The strategy of the game requires enough thinking that this idea becomes
lost and even considered as BULL.

However, if a weaker player as my self while captain of a even weaker team
can gain an advantage with an idea an strategy, the game becomes a
match of wits like chess.

Gary, I tell you it is great to win a hard played game, but it is even
better to see this intimidation break a game wide open.

Try it, and get back with your impressions. Remember it was a pork chop.
Intended to break your chops, talk about it.

Here`s another trick I discovered that I have been amased with... When
wanting to place a spin on the pointing ball all books suggest a thumb up or
thumb down. This has not created enough effect because of the playing
surface. I have discovered a bend little finger under the ball, Yes the ball
sitting on top of the little finger, create an increased spin. It can be
controlled by the wrist movement and increased or decreased. Try it.

:
Cheers...John.

John -

Very interesting. I guess I need to get active, which means finding someone
around here who plays.But that leads me to a question: I have not
perused the book list lately, but what is a good book on strategy? I have
never seen one, which surprised me. On the other hand, perhaps such a
book would signal the transition of the game to a more formalized status.
Not just fun any more, but with winning as a driving force. I suppose it
eventually comes to that in everything, but I like the idea of the prime
directive being enjoyment of the game itself. And I see the use of natural
terrain,
which introduces variability, as an example of that premise. You can be
great, but if you play on natural terrain, you are neutralized to some
degree. I
suspect that the big tournaments are held on very well groomed, near
homogeneous surfaces. That tends to even skills out between players, and
makes strategy and tactics more important.

Cheers...Gary
: : In fact, this thread almost makes me believe that there are proponents
who are mentally well past where the game itself is.

: Very true, Too much thinking doesn't necessary lead toward a win. The
advance players in my opinion, move into an ability tunnel where the takeout
and the pointing abilities become the players main concern. Here they wait
for the first error to be made by the opponent and this advantage of balls
becomes another strategy. Until the advantage is lost with the opponents
making an error.
: Like yourself, I am on the learning curve and this zone of intimidation as
become an effort to improve my changes toward an WIN. NO it will not be
used by the elite cream of the crop because without a good pointer and
good shooter they have not arrived at the TOP, Our teams of beginners
sometimes can not win as in teh overpowering games show. However, I am a
left-handed player and I have discovered an advantage (tactic) to
choosing the jack placement which attacking the playing surface of the
righthanded pointer. To improve the advantages of my team against a good
shooter, I have even tried to use this zone and sometime it really is
workable.

: As an example: I know a excellance shooter who hasnot the ability to
refuse a second takeout shot. If he misses the frist ball he is sure to use
his
second shot. Even will insist that his middle try the shot. Three balls for
one is a good exchange if I can get him to miss the first. He has an
intimidation
at 7.5 to 8.5 meters and will always be high or over-left. Why?? I only know
a jack at 8 to 9 meters and a frontal ball will waste his balls.
:
: Now, it was discovered, by error, my own inability to point well; that as
my ball moved too far right of the jack it was permitted to stay and the
opponents would attempt to point an extra ball or two, like the wasted
shooter ball, this wasted pointed ball gave an advantage.


: Is this type of 'hypothesis' typical of how more advanced players think?

: No. The strategy of the game requires enough thinking that this idea
becomes lost and even considered as BULL.

: However, if a weaker player as my self while captain of a even weaker team
can gain an advantage with an idea an strategy, the game becomes a
match of wits like chess.

: Gary, I tell you it is great to win a hard played game, but it is even
better to see this intimidation break a game wide open.

: Try it, and get back with your impressions. Remember it was a pork chop.
Intended to break your chops, talk about it.
:
: Here`s another trick I discovered that I have been amased with... When
wanting to place a spin on the pointing ball all books suggest a thumb up or
thumb down. This has not created enough effect because of the playing
surface. I have discovered a bend little finger under the ball, Yes the ball
sitting on top of the little finger, create an increased spin. It can be
controlled by the wrist movement and increased or decreased. Try it.

: : Cheers...John.